TD Waterhouse To Complete Ameritrade Canada Merger

4 April 2006
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This truly sucks for Canadian traders! I’ve been lamenting the fall of Ameritrade Canada as the nation’s lowest cost discount brokerage (without using a tiered/incentive system). Ameritrade Canada offered US equity trades at US$10.99 per trade. There simply aren’t any discount brokerage that can come close this offer without being a high mileage frequent trader.

TD Waterhouse Canada bought out Ameritrade Canada on January 24, 2006 to strengthen their brokerage business. They are currently in the final stages of preparing to convert Ameritrade Canada accounts to TD Waterhouse accounts. The transition is expected to be complete on June 3, 2006.

That’s right! If you’re wondering whether TD will keep the same fee schedule, not a chance! The new fees will apply to new accounts effective June 3, 2006. The current Ameritrade Canada fees will remain in effect until close of business on June 2, 2006. If you are currently an Ameritrade Canada account holder, do remember that any open equity and option orders still on Ameritrade.ca on June 2, 2006 will be cancelled at the close of business day.

The New Fees
I’m angry that TD Waterhouse is not choosing to keep Ameritrade operating separately. The consolidation will cut costs, as well as fatten their pockets through the new increased fee of US$29 for US equity trades. An increase of US$18 or over 100% increase! Isn’t it ridiculous?

They are giving a welcoming offer for Ameritrade clients to trade for just UD$9.99 for the first 3 months until September 7, 2006. But that hardly makes up for it! Are we now telling investors that investing is a long term commitmment worth 3 months?

To qualify for Tier II pricing of US$14.99 flat rate trading, you must execute 30 or more trades per quarter. To qualify for Tier I pricing of US$9.99 flat rate trading, you must execute more than 150 or more trades a quarter. Are we instilling the mentality of a day trader in our investors to take advantage of tier-pricing or reaching the next level?

The Monopoly of Banks
The problem with having 5 big banks is that there is no competition to drive fees low. There is absolutely no reason to have such high comission fees when Ameritrade has proven that a low-fee business model can work.

I’ve often lament about the high comission fees that “discount” brokerages charge. It’s all a grand scheme to siphon dollars from your pocket. For example, The Globe Investor runs an annual report comparing discount brokerages and they have always omitted Ameritrade Canada conveniently. Nobody is looking out for the consumers and investors, but for the various corporations’ bottom line. It’s merely another cog in the well-oiled financial industry selling machine.

Are You An Ameritrade Canada Account Holder?
If there are any Ameritrade account holders out there. I’d like to hear your thoughts about this, are there any things you are doing to transition your accounts elsewhere? Are there any suggestions from other Canadian traders on which discount brokerage they prefer? and why? What options do a budding average joe investor have? Do share!

  • joyce
    TD WebBroker is on it's 5 disruption this week and when you do phone they either hang up or disconnect after you have been waiting 20 minutes listening to their stupid music. Still can't login to web broker read other who could not get trades in November 20 at td web broker and lost a lot of money....maybe they need to be fined again or investigated for poor service .. no complaint link either
  • snowman
    Ok, so the big five banks are a pain in the butt! What about the smaller ones or the co-ops? What about the President's Choice accounts? Can anyone testify to ones they are happy with? I'd like to switch to a user friendly bank or trust company, etc.
  • Jim
    I am a US citizen with landed immigrant status in Canada. Several years ago, I had a block of stock with Ameritrade (US) and when they opened their Ameritrade Canada offices, they moved my account to Canada without even asking just because I had a Canadian address on the account. Really ticked me off. Only got a letter after it was all done. Got a service rep on the phone and asked why / how? He did not have an answer for me. They sent me Canadian forms to fill out. I refused to do it. Have not heard from them for many years. Found out they closed / got bought out by TD. Then later I found out they were no longer. Didn't know what happenned to them or who they merged with or....
    Just want to get a stock certificate for my stocks but don't know who to call.
  • Mark
    I may be a bit late on this thread but I was well and truly screwed by TD waterhouse. I opened an account years ago with DLJ who TD waterhouse bought over - I was charged a minimal fee for trades and no admin fees with DLJ. TD Waterhouse bought them over and changed all my terms and conditions with no advantages except introducing admin fees - I haven't really looked at this account for ages but when the money ran out in my cash account they started selling my shares to cover their fees additionally charging the brokerage fee for the sale (!) of 17.50GBP - total 50GBP a pop to maintain my accounts. I have tried to shut this down several times - problem being that then they bought over DLJ, they changed all the account numbers and I have to 'set up' my account and password in order to shut it down - they are suprisingly unhelpful in helping me do this. Finally having rung them to just close it down now that I have no value left that they haven't sucked out, they tell me that there is a 95GBP fee to close the account but they can't close it without a password!! The fee includes yearly admin charges (didn't I pay this 2 months ago I asked? - yes but this is for next years fees!). What kind of a company is this - i there nothing consumers can do about this?....
  • Ohelinda
    Well TD came out with new commissions fees today -apparently you can now trade for as low as $7 Flat. Don't get too excited though, this applies to you only IF you place 150+ Trades/Quarter. For me personally, the problem is that I would gladly trade that often if only I would not be forced to first make minimum of 30 trades at 60 bucks roundtrip. The good thing is that now you only need $100,000+ In Household Assets to qualify for the $9.99 trades.

    Also, I did not realize this before, but it seems that since June of this year they charge ECN fees???

    Is anyone with CIBC? They advertise first 50 trades for $7.9 (prepaid at $395) and $6.90 after that. No quaterly minimums or anything. I realize they are not a direct broker, but I am wondering what their speed of execution is like (compared to say TD Waterhouse). Any personal experiences with CIBC that someone can share with us?
  • I finally had enough with TD WaterHouse Web Broker. It's a piece of crap, very outdated.
    I have already started moving money to my OptionsXpress.ca and E-Trade account. Might also open up a TradeFreedom.ca account.
    When I close all my positions in my TD Web Broker account, I am closing the account and be done with it, NO MORE crappy TD WaterHouse Web broker.

    Read my rant about TD on my blog.

    Das Brain
  • wayne
    Trade Freedom even though associated with Scotia,has the best fee's for canadian investors
  • Alex
    TradeFreedom just got bought out by ScotiaMcleod!
  • pat lee
    Regarding the buy out of Ameritrade by TD. It's evil, I tell ya. First I was a Canadian client of US based sure trade/got bought out by mysdiscountbroker/got bought out by amitrade/then found myself being shifted back to TD discount brokerage, the canadian arm. It's frustrating, to be certain, and I did eventually go to tradefreedom out of Montreal, (unlimited US equities for 9.99) HOWEVER didn't read ALL the fine print and unfortunately I'd left my HSBC cash in money market funds. Well guess what - they'd transferred all in kind (my mistake) and now I am looking at a $39. commision to "sell" my MM HSBC to get back in cash. ANOTHER downside is tradefreedom doesn't carry the mutual fund platform so ANY canadian mutual fund is subject to 39.00 comm. I have 3 WOF funds!! I'm trying to justify things by saving money on one aspect of my portfolio which is largely US equities and then loosing some in my cdn portfolio.
  • Alex
    There are a lot of dissatisfied Ameritrade clients (including myself) so it's not just "12" people that are dissatisfied/ticked. I would have posted sooner but only found out about this site today. I think we need to figure out a way to send a message to TD Waterhouse that they will lose a lot of us if they won't listen. It cost them a lot to acquire us from Ameritrade so I don't think it's in their best interest to lose clients left right and center.

    You can't have it both ways. You either keep the fees low or you give your clients a powerful tools. TD Waterhouse does not have any useful tools; it is inferior to the Ameritrade Tools. Since it does not have that, I think the least it should do is keep the rate at $9.99. Either that, or bring back the Ameritrade Tools and then I wouldn't complain as much about the high fee. You can't have both TD Waterhouse. Are you listening?
  • John
    I agree all canadian banks are charging more than double what the Us Ameritrade, scottrade and others charge.
    But I just founnd Interactive Brokers and Questrade, They charge alot less than TD ameritrade, BMO investorline, and RBC actiondirect.
    I am still checking them out, before I decide to move my business to Interactive Brokers or Questrade.
    If their fees and conditions are better and to my satisfaction, I will startt doing business with one of them
  • Vitali
    I agree with all of you. I am about to call TD right now to have my account closed and the money wired to IB. Webbroker is a joke. Too bad I will have to give them $100 for this crap!!!
  • Ohelinda
    Well it has been almost a month and I can't get used to TD Waterhouse's Webbroker -it is pathetic. I still can't believe they have delayed data and promote it as some sort of unique offering.

    Anyway, if you are a somewhat active Canadian trader be careful who you switch to. I used to be with Interactive Brokers before I moved to Ameritrade. The problem with Interactive Brokers is that they clear in the States which means the PDT rule applies to you even if you are a Canadian trading the Canadian Markets. In other words, if you have less than $25,000 US in your trading account you can not make more than 3 trades per week.

    Effective September 1, 2006 Tradefreedom advertises 9.99 flat fees, however, don't forget that that means "plus applicable ECN/Exchange Fees" which can add up to a quite expensive commission per trade. Same with E-trade and Questtrade -they also charge ECN/Exchange Fees.

    Has anyone tested the Active Trader platform at TD Waterhouse? I don't qualify for the trial because I don't trade often enough. Ironically, maybe if I had something better to trade with I would love to trade more often.

    I don't know how to trade with Webbroker. By the time I fill out 3 pages in order to buy a stock I want to sell it already. They don't provide any usefull tools. How do people trade with Td Waterhouse?

    Are 10 -12 of us here the only ex Ameritrade customers who are frustraded?
  • Thanks Jeff!

    Hmm, I'm left wondering what's "interactive" about Interactive Brokers? :P
  • Jeff
    I have been with Interactive Brokers for a week now and have been quite happy. There is definitely a learning curve with their software (ie. TWS) but with a little diligence it is readily conquerable. They don't seem to enjoy receiving phone calls. On the couple of times I have called them they are neither pleasant nor upleasant, just very business-like which in my opinion is fine (ie. I am not looking for a friend in a broker). To this end, they have numerous ways of contacting them for support. Once you have an approved, and I believe if I recall correctly, a funded account through the account management of their website, they have a service called "inquiry ticket". If you have a non-urgent matter, you simply send your question, concern via the internet, and in my experience (after using this service approximately 5 times) they respond within at the most 4-6 hours. They also have a live-chat feature which I have not used in order to ask questions. One service they do not offer is registering shares of a stock in an individuals name (ie. issuing stock certificates). So if you are interested in physically holding shares in your name, Interactive Brokers is not the place.
  • Thanks for all the comments everyone! Keep them coming!

    I actually checked with a friend (no names) who knows much more about law than I do. Most Terms of Service (TOS) agreements usually permit changes in the fee schedule; probably on notice of some kind. Ontario law permits such changes on certain conditions. At the end of the day, it's a marketing question, because if the customer doesn't agree to the change, the provider or the customer can just shut down the account.

    As far as the transfer out fee is concerned, depending on the structure of the merger, the first place to look for it is the Ameritrade TOS. If the merger was effected as a so-called Plan of Arrangement, then a Judge may well have approved converting all of the Ameritrade accounts to the TD TOS - unlikely, but possible. If the transfer out fee is entirely new, and there has been no notice given, and the merger wasn't a Plan of Arrangement, then the customer may a point. It seems quite unfair to impose a transfer out fee with no notice at all. TD Ameritrade did send notice about the transfer but failed to highlight the transfer fee issue with merely a mention of its fee schedule.

    Personally, I'm interested in hearing more about what you might have to say regarding your experience with other brokers. What are your feelings after you've transferred to E*Trade or Interactive Brokers as some have suggested. The grass is always greener on the other side, but when you get there, is it still as green as you thought? I'm sure many will appreciate those info too! ;)
  • tony
    thanks for the comments on this board - who ever let this merger got through must have got a real nice kick back, cause its certainly not in the public interest. i will be (i) complaining to TD waterhouse, (ii) moving my account to either e-trade or interactive broker and (iii) will NOT be paying the transfer out fee.
  • FROM TD STAFF - WE SUCK!!!
    yeah, i worked at td waterhouse, and i can PROMISE you webbroker sucks AND THEY TAKE YEARS to make changes. maybe some bank execs think we LIKE to pay more FOR LESS, but the working public DOES NOT. How do we end the power of the banks? we need more people like stephen jarislowsky to FIGHT for the average person. SPEAK WITH YOUR MONEY, move your accounts! make your friends realize just how bad they are! does anyone want to gather around a TD branch and have a little rally? that would be cool! use our democratic rights to protest! let canadians know the truth! (unfortunately, the discount brokers bend over backwards for their big clients, so they won't even notice you. they are big stagnant firms. i can't believe i'd MUCH prefer to support american firms like etrade)
  • Jeff
    JUst want to let everyone know that my transfer from Waterhouse to Interactive Brokers is complete. TD did not charge me the 100.00 transfer out fee (see my post from above). The letter I wrote to John See I also sent to Client Transfer Services (located at 77 Bloor Street West in Toronto) and also Client Support Group (address located on page 22 of the Account and service agreements and disclosure documents which was sent with the TD Waterhouse welcome package). As mentioned I never logged into my TD account on the internet so I never consented to their agreements. For those of you that did and are unhappy with their services relative to what you received at Ameritrade Canada and wish to transfer without paying the 100.00 transfer out fee (many receiving brokers will reimburse you this fee but Interactive Brokers will not) write a letter and state that the product TD provides is inferior to Ameritrade (this seems to be the consensus on this board) and see where this gets you. Interactive Brokers has been nothing but professional and if you spend some time reviewing their website you will see they offer products and order types that no one else does. Also if you are trading 100 to 200 shares of a US equity you will be paying 1 to 2 dollars in commission per trade.
  • Rob K.
    I`ve been Ameritrade Canada customer for a while and before i was with Datek. Both of those companies offered pretty good tools for traders including streaming level II qotes, instant account updates. charts and so on. After my account was transffered to TD Waterhouse and i finally managed to log in for the first time i was in Shock!!!!! I thought there had to be some kind of mistake.. I felt like i just travelled back in time to 90`s.. My account balance for instance is based on a closing price from previous day OMG.. Extended hours trading.. Yeah right :) Im not sure even if they know what that is... How could this be ligal for company to take over existing account and not offer the same level of service .. This is just ridiculous ... why couldn`t they keep the same trading interface Streamer.. it was an awesome tool.. now hmmm i don`t even feel like trading anymore.. It`s just a matter of time before i will be closing my account.. Thank you TD!!! You finally helped me realize that trader/ customer rights don`t exist in Canada... whoever allowed this this take over to happen should be in jail right now
  • Ohelinda
    Is there a discussion board that we can all go to commiserate? I think it would be wise for us to communicate and work together. If there is only a few people complaining I doubt TD will bother doing anything, but if all (ok, most) former Ameritrade Canada clients complain maybe they will consider giving us at least their Active Trader platforms or something else like reduced commissions. I can't believe that after the 3 month promotion, I might end up paying $29 bucks per trade! I would personally love it if they just gave us our old site back (stick their logo on there if they wish) since I really don't know how to trade without the real time screener, java Tools ect.

    At TD Waterhouse Canada you have to go through 3 (!!) pages to send in a stock order. You can't use the very popular Quotetracker software. Their Markets & Research page is 15-20 minutes delayed! Can you believe that -a broker with delayed quotes?! Exactly what is the point? They think we can't find anywhere else to get delayed data?

    I definetively can not trade using TD Waterhouse Canada's webroker. I will have to look for something else unless they do something quick. I would even consider going to E-trade, Interactive Brokers or worse yet, one of the banks if I have to.
  • Jeff
    I was an Ameritrade Canada customer. I am switching to Interactive Brokers as commissions can't be beat. Currently fighting with TD Waterhouse as I do not feel that I should have to pay the transfer out fee ($100.00) from TD Waterhouse as I never consented to having a TD Waterhouse account. As I see it TD Watehouse opened an account without my consent (ie. I have never physically signed any TD papers for an account and I refuse to login into my TD account on the internet as I am sure that there will be client agreements I will have to agree to and I refuse to agree to do business with TD). Anyone I speak to at TD Waterhouse states that the transfer out fee is standard across the industry and the receiving broker generally picks up this fee. Interactive Brokers does not pick up this fee as their commisssions are so inexpensive they don't have to utilize this as an incentive to join them. I told TD the transfer out fee may be standard and I could understand them charging it if I had elected to have a TD account on my own free will and not through a merger. Wrote a letter to John See earlier this week(President of TD Waterhouse) and waiting to hear back. Interestingly enough though, no TD employee I spoke to had Mr. See's mailing address (or more likely wouldn't give it to me) but happened to come across it on the internet. The wonders of the web.
  • If you're looking for a competitive discount broker, you may wish to check out firstrade.com. While it may not be available in Canda, trades with them are $6.95, all the time.
  • Jim Thompson
    TD is cannabilizing itself. Check out Interactive Brokers (www.interactivebrokers.ca); they do require a $10 monthly minimum in commissions, but their regular fees are potentially dozens of times lower than those of the big banks. US stocks at 0.5c/share, Canadian stocks at 1c/share, and access to trading European/Japanese stocks and futures. Lightning-fast access to markets and incredible flexibility; I've been with IB Canada since 2002. Only problem is no RRSP accts (am stuck with TDW for that).
  • Wilson Wong
    I've been looking around. Funny story, the day I decided to close my TDWaterhouse Account, just several days ago, I found out about this merger and it really made me angry. I just wanted to offer my two-cents to people that E*Trade Canada is offering $20/trade and 9.99/trade if you do 30+ trades per quarter. 30+ is not unreasonable versus TD's 150 trades to get to that rate.
  • Bill, I feel your pain. But where would your accounts be going? There isn't any viable solution out there in the Canadian marketplace that are under $20 comission. If you know of anything better, care to share?
  • Bill
    TD in Canada is really sticking it to the former Ameritrade account holders. I used to pay with Ameritrade $10.99, now as an active trader that will increase nearly 50% to $14.99., yet TD Ameritrade in the U.S. the fees remain at $9.99 per trade! Maybe there is better service, like more data feeds. Absolutely not - streaming quotes and level II quotes which were free are in the order of $99.00 / month with TD in Canada. I guess someone has to pay for this merger. And again in the US with TD Ameritrade those data feeds remain free. Why the OSC ever approved this deal I don't know - they certainly are not looking out for the average investor. I am angry that trading in Canada has been set back and this bank is offering so much less for so much more. But, I'm not going to be the one to pay for their purchase of Ameritrade 'cause ALL my accounts are moving. Rob someone else.
  • Nelly
    I agree that this merge intends to ripp-off the average Joe Trader. I called TD to ask if they will provide the same interface and data, nobody answers. Apparently TD will add to its profit a raised fee for the streaming data and leave us without charts available at Ameritrade, a pure robbery.
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